The Greatest Quarterback Ever? - Page 3 - Football Forum - NFL, CFL & College Football Forums
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:26 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I don't consider him the best ever, but he's right there with the best.

However, where do you get your sports news? Nobody gives them love? hahahaha That's crazy. EVERYONE gives them love. Every reporter picks them to win every game, every reporter has them in every AFC Championship until further notice, half them reporters have them in every Super Bowl until further notice, and no report (be them on the radio, TV, newspaper, or Internet) mentions football being played above the Mason-Dixon line without first turning Eastward, bowing on their knees, and kissing the entire crack of Bill's pimpled bottom.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:31 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PATS16N0 View Post
Instead of using buzzwords like "Spygate" why don't you explain how exactly Brady knew everything another team was doing before it actually happened and applied the organization (like every other organization) taping other teams signals to an actual football game?

In other words, tell me how it all worked in detail. How it was put to use and implemented so that Brady could magically win Superbowl rings he didn't deserve because to be honest I think you're full of crap.

Jimmy Johnson said he did it. Lots of head coaches have come forward and said it was "wide spread" through out the NFL. Given all that, how do you know Montana DIDN'T? Because Mangini wasn't around with a grudge against him?

I'd really love to see you walk up to a guy like Tedy Bruschi and tell him to his face that you honestly don't believe he earned his rings. Deep down i'm sure you know it's a load of bull****.
You don't see how stealing a team's signals and verbal commands could help you win a game? Can you imagine how a time machine could help you win the lottery?
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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1. I don't see how you could execute video taped signals in an actual football game, putting it to any real practical use.

2. While everyone seems to love to ignore this, leading me to believe that "Spygate" is more about dropping the Patriots down a peg, it's been widely admitted by numerous Superbowl winning coaches that this was happening everywhere, all over the league, and that it didn't have a serious impact on the game.

3. The season following the story breaking, the Patriots went 16-0, shattered every offensive record in the book, and came a flukey helmet catch away from being regarded as the undefeated, undisputed, greatest football team of all time. Given this, I really don't see how people like Canadian can say how unworthy and phony the Patriots Superbowl wins were. We might not have had another Superbowl win since "Spygate" broke but we've had two appearances (one of which was lost on what everyone has to admit was luck), Brady wining the first ever unanimous league MVP, a 14-2 season, a 13-3 season, and last year an offense bringing the second worst defense in the league to one 4th quarter defensive stop away from another ring.

The argument doesn't make any logical sense. There for I can only assume it's spite.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Every Pats fan every hollers about how everyone was doing it, but everyone didn't get caught. Infact, there was never a shred of evidence that anyone else done it. So, until someone else proves that someone done it, then I can't buy that excuse.

Them not winning a Super Bowl since being caught is significant, but like you said, they have played competitively in two.

Signals can be used by the coaches knowing when a blitz is being called and when coverage is being called and giving Tom a play accordingly.

Regular season greatness is great. But if you are measuring your QB on regular season, then he absolutely is not the greatest. Peyton Manning is.

You measure the greatness by post-season success, and Brady is right there with the best of them, but you have to put (*) beside his name because of Spygate and the fact he hasn't had as much success since. Do we forget that prior to that he was undefeated in the post season? Something like 10-0? No so much since.

And it's hard for me to believe it's conjured up to "take the Patriots down a notch", because the COMMISSIONER of the NFL (the very guy that is afforded the right to bring the hammer down and take them down a notch) chose to illegally dispose of the evidence and dock a draft pick. Where was the year-long coach suspensions and the lawsuits over money lost in Vegas and all the things that should have happened? They had a chance to take them down a notch, and chose not to.

That being said, he isn't the only one that I think is tarnished that everyone else worships, either.

For example:
Elway is not even in any conversation of greatness for me. Him and the Broncos are no count cheaters. They didn't steal signals, they cheated the salary cap. The purposely violated it in every way they could to put together a Super Bowl winning team and just took whatever punishment the league had (not much) to cheat their way to Super Bowls.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Just kidding.
1. Joe Montana
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Dan Marino
5. John Elway

I think Bill Bellicheat is a major factor to Brady's success. This was witnessed when Brady went down with a season-ending knee injury during the first game in 2008 and Matt Cassel led the team to an 11-5 record. The system in place allows Brady to be very good but Manning is the better all-around quarterback. Tom Brady on any other team is slightly better than average.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I'm not discrediting Tom Brady at all. He's an outstanding football player and quarterback. But, Joe Montana takes the cake. Again, it goes back to the era thing. I've seen videos of Montana absolutely being destroyed by linemen and linebackers. I've also seen Brady whine to officials that he got hit, calling for a flag. Different times affecting the different ways the games is played is what makes my decision concrete in my head. You can dispute it all you want, but it's just what it is.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:36 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PATS16N0 View Post
Instead of using buzzwords like "Spygate" why don't you explain how exactly Brady knew everything another team was doing before it actually happened and applied the organization (like every other organization) taping other teams signals to an actual football game?

In other words, tell me how it all worked in detail. How it was put to use and implemented so that Brady could magically win Superbowl rings he didn't deserve because to be honest I think you're full of crap.

Jimmy Johnson said he did it. Lots of head coaches have come forward and said it was "wide spread" through out the NFL. Given all that, how do you know Montana DIDN'T? Because Mangini wasn't around with a grudge against him?

I'd really love to see you walk up to a guy like Tedy Bruschi and tell him to his face that you honestly don't believe he earned his rings. Deep down i'm sure you know it's a load of bull****.
Well here's the thing (and of course it's hard to explain to a Pats fan because ignorance is bliss) but there were a conspiracy in which the Pats had taped teams practices, stollen defensive calls from other teams, and then tampered with the audio communication headsets of the opposing teams at their home forcing said team to USE stolen signs, allowing the Pats offense to make adjustments based on this information.

If you know that someone isn't going to have help over the top, it's easy to pass it deep, if you know the blitz is coming from one side, it's easy to shift the O-Line to cover that direction. In short, if you know what's coming at you, it's easy to adjust and stop what is trying to be done against you.

When the entire story got covered, there was another "un-named" player that was invovled in the entire thing... The year that this happened, Bledsoe was the QB, but who was calling in plays to him that entire season until the Bledsoe got hurt? Brady! Now, even if Brady didn't know, he was in a system that was making calls for him based on this information which allowed him to be successful... As such, his stats weren't clean.

Why did Goodell help cover it up? Simple... To blow the story wide open would be to have to destroy the league's newest dynasty, as well as the league's newest poster boy and coach. It would also undo the good that the "Patriots" wins brought the country at a time when the country needed something to cheer for. How more poetic then the "Patriots" winning after 911... It gave the coutry something to cheer for... Goodell knew this, so instead of blowing the lid wide open, he helped to cover it up.

Don't you find it odd that the year it comes out, they almost go perfect? If a CEO was busted for stealing money from his company, then bought an island in the tropics... What would you say about that? There is such thing as faith and willful blindness to what obviously happened. Given my line of work and knowledge of the game of football, I can't accept coincidence as easily as some fanboys do... Not that Boston has any of those.

But please, don't assume that beacuse I used the common name (not buzzword) for the incident which took place that I don't know what took place and how it all went down... I simply haven't forgotten and let it slide... I don't think anyone should have either. The wins, records and champioships should have been voided.

Spygate Timeline

Brady is no more the best QB, then Barry Bonds is the Homerun King.

Advanced Knowledge of Plays

Headset Malfunctions

Unexplained Blitz Pick Ups

Bill Bellicheat's Classless History

And if that wasn't enough... Here you have someone changing their story so many times that it only points to guilt.

Timeline - Before the Scandal: Belichick's standard response:

“We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress, part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations.”

Timeline - Video Scandal Breaks Out -Belichick's response:

When asked during a press conferece on Wednesday, Belichick said he had spoken with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell “about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday’s game and my interpretation of the rules.” Belichick then sidestepped a question about what he meant by "interpretation of the rules" His final words that Wednesday, when asked to give more information were “I said that I don’t have anything to add to that, when they give a decision, then I’ll make a comment.”

Timeline - Desicion was made, Belichick fined half a million dollars, Patriots fined 250,000 and lose two or more drat picks - Belichick's Response (Remember he promised us a comment earlier in the week):

"My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect. With tonight's resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday's game."

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Old 09-22-2012, 12:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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If you are one of those people who judge QB's only on how many rings they have, then you all have legitimate arguments. But being a team game, it takes a lot more than just the QB to win a Super Bowl. So to correctly judge a QB, you have to look at QB ratings. That being said, the top 2 of all time in the history of the NFL are still playing. Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo. Say all you want about Romo, but his numbers don't lie. He just hasn't had any help. Marino's name comes up...why? He's ranked pretty low all time. Just saying. .
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:55 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Speed View Post
Well here's the thing (and of course it's hard to explain to a Pats fan because ignorance is bliss) but there were a conspiracy in which the Pats had taped teams practices, stollen defensive calls from other teams, and then tampered with the audio communication headsets of the opposing teams at their home forcing said team to USE stolen signs, allowing the Pats offense to make adjustments based on this information.

If you know that someone isn't going to have help over the top, it's easy to pass it deep, if you know the blitz is coming from one side, it's easy to shift the O-Line to cover that direction. In short, if you know what's coming at you, it's easy to adjust and stop what is trying to be done against you.

When the entire story got covered, there was another "un-named" player that was invovled in the entire thing... The year that this happened, Bledsoe was the QB, but who was calling in plays to him that entire season until the Bledsoe got hurt? Brady! Now, even if Brady didn't know, he was in a system that was making calls for him based on this information which allowed him to be successful... As such, his stats weren't clean.

Why did Goodell help cover it up? Simple... To blow the story wide open would be to have to destroy the league's newest dynasty, as well as the league's newest poster boy and coach. It would also undo the good that the "Patriots" wins brought the country at a time when the country needed something to cheer for. How more poetic then the "Patriots" winning after 911... It gave the coutry something to cheer for... Goodell knew this, so instead of blowing the lid wide open, he helped to cover it up.

Don't you find it odd that the year it comes out, they almost go perfect? If a CEO was busted for stealing money from his company, then bought an island in the tropics... What would you say about that? There is such thing as faith and willful blindness to what obviously happened. Given my line of work and knowledge of the game of football, I can't accept coincidence as easily as some fanboys do... Not that Boston has any of those.

But please, don't assume that beacuse I used the common name (not buzzword) for the incident which took place that I don't know what took place and how it all went down... I simply haven't forgotten and let it slide... I don't think anyone should have either. The wins, records and champioships should have been voided.

Spygate Timeline

Brady is no more the best QB, then Barry Bonds is the Homerun King.

Advanced Knowledge of Plays

Headset Malfunctions

Unexplained Blitz Pick Ups

Bill Bellicheat's Classless History

And if that wasn't enough... Here you have someone changing their story so many times that it only points to guilt.

Timeline - Before the Scandal: Belichick's standard response:

“We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress, part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations.”

Timeline - Video Scandal Breaks Out -Belichick's response:

When asked during a press conferece on Wednesday, Belichick said he had spoken with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell “about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday’s game and my interpretation of the rules.” Belichick then sidestepped a question about what he meant by "interpretation of the rules" His final words that Wednesday, when asked to give more information were “I said that I don’t have anything to add to that, when they give a decision, then I’ll make a comment.”

Timeline - Desicion was made, Belichick fined half a million dollars, Patriots fined 250,000 and lose two or more drat picks - Belichick's Response (Remember he promised us a comment earlier in the week):

"My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect. With tonight's resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday's game."

Do you have proof to substantiate ANY of that garbage?
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