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**stormdriver** · 12-05-2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guile

There are always going to be cities that want a team, especially LA. They are still bitter over the Raiders leaving. There was some talk a while back about moving the Chargers up to LA, but nobody wants to give up a team. I think expansion could work in a big market, but I'm happy with the current setup. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

I think 8 more teams (add one "central" division to each the NFC and AFC) would keep the current 16-game schedule feasible, and if placed properly (Portland, Las Vegas, the midwest) would not interfere with current teams and their fans too much. LA, as the second-biggest city in the U.S., needs a team for sure, but die-hard Raiders fans there will stay Raiders fans, and the rivalries that would be created between LA-San Diego, LA-Oakland, Portland-Seattle, St. Louis-Omaha(or wherever) and Vegas-Arizona would actually bring more fans to the NFL. In regard to talent level, that is one downside, but not a significant one. In this era, games are won by teamwork, not by teams with more money getting all of the good players. You Patriot fans of all people should know that...

**Manster** · 12-05-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeter4982

This is a very interesting topic, but I am not in favor of expansion. Moving is a different story, however I don't think an odd number of teams would be good, but then if you added two teams, 34 would be a lot. The talent level in the NFL has dropped with the expansion teams being added, and it will only continue to if more teams are added. Living in Connecticut, I guess I am a bit spoiled with the Giants, Jets, and Patriots all within a short driving distance, but I think in most cases, the cities without NFL teams currently, are not as much of a "football town" as the ones who have it. I know this is a broad generalization, but it has proven to be true over the years, with lack of support of certain teams in these cities.

I disagree with some of this when the NFL was getting started they were mostly in the north east that was where most of the big cities were at the time and that is where a yoy still have a bunch of large cities close to each other. Now there are big cities across the county and I think football would be supported in a lot of them. In the south there were never that many NFL teams aroound so people got behind their local colleges and high school teams. I would not want to add another team so I would have to say move a team to LA if one is needed. I do not think that Mexico or Canada will get a team, the Cowboys are to big in Mexico and would try and keep teams from going down there. I dont no what deal the CFL and the NFL have about moving teams into one anothers area.

jeter4982 · 12-05-2005, 07:11 PM

I don't know how you can simply say "In regard to talent level, that is one downside, but not a significant one." I highly doubt the NFL is going to spend millions of dollars on creating eight new teams, just to put an inferior product on the field. If you think about what you just said, with eight new teams, that would be roughly 400 new NFL players that previously hadn't been good enough to play NFL football. The talent pool would become so drained that you would end up with a college level game. Teams like the Patriots have lots of talent, they just don't have the superstars other teams have, but they still have the talent. You can't throw out a team of practice squad players, and expect to win a championship.

subgenius · 12-28-2005, 12:05 PM

It would be interesting to see eight divisions for the AFC/NFC that had five teams each -- 40 teams total. Adding eight teams would be a monumental undertaking, especially all at once in a single year. I doubt that the NFL will add eight teams.

As for the Cardinals... I wish that they would change the team name. Now that they are no longer an NFC East team, it would not change very much. The Arizona Cardinals just does not sound good to me. It is an old team name, though. It just seems like an Arizona team would have a better team name. I am not even sure that there are any cardinals (the bird) in Arizona.

Some birds that do reside in Arizona have some funny names, LOL. Like the Blue-footed Booby or Brown Booby or Creepers. Seriously, Arizona needs a tougher team name. A name that is more in line with the State itself...

**stormdriver** · 12-30-2005, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeter4982

I don't know how you can simply say "In regard to talent level, that is one downside, but not a significant one." I highly doubt the NFL is going to spend millions of dollars on creating eight new teams, just to put an inferior product on the field. If you think about what you just said, with eight new teams, that would be roughly 400 new NFL players that previously hadn't been good enough to play NFL football. The talent pool would become so drained that you would end up with a college level game. Teams like the Patriots have lots of talent, they just don't have the superstars other teams have, but they still have the talent. You can't throw out a team of practice squad players, and expect to win a championship.

I realize it's nearly a month later, but I finally have an argument for you. First, I found this on the NFL website about just how talented and competitive this year's teams are.

No matter how it all turns out, the 2005 NFL playoff field will be an impressive one indeed:
All 12 teams could have at least 10 wins apiece -- the third time this has happened (2000, 2003) since the NFL went to the 12-team playoff system in 1990. Looked at in another way, there could be three teams with 10 wins who do not make the playoffs -- equaling the entire total of such teams since 1990 (Philadelphia and San Francisco in 1991; Miami in 2003).
For the second time in the past three seasons (2003), the NFL could boast six 12-win teams -- the most in a season in history.
Of the 14 clubs either in the playoffs or seeking playoff berths, nine did not make the postseason last year.
For the fourth time since 2000, two teams -- Chicago and Tampa Bay -- can go from "worst to first" in their divisions, finishing last a year ago and first in 2005.

That alone is impressive, but you also make the comment about practice squad players. For that, I will make an example of my new hero, Samkon Gado. Gado was a 3rd-string player at Liberty University until he was signed as an undrafted agent to the Chiefs practice squad. When KC no longer needed him, they released him. Green Bay picked him up cheap, and made him their practice squad RB. After Green, Davenport, and Fisher all suffered season-ending injuries, Gado became the starter. As such, he ran down the Atlanta defense three times, and beat the rushing records for any Green Bay rookie ever in 5 games versus 16. He's out with an injury himself now, and it remains to be seen whether he will return next year, but his presense begs an interesting question. How many are there out there like him? How many good football players slip past the draft "experts" each year and pursue other careers? Every time the world's population increases, the number of talented football players do too. You say that 8 new teams would bring 400 players that were not good enough into the NFL, but I say it would give 400 good players a chance to play they otherwise would not have had. There are millions of people in this country. Do you think there are at least 4-500 more Samkon Gados? Statistically, it's very likely.

jeter4982 · 12-30-2005, 09:52 AM

I do see where you are coming from, but I still have to disagree. Just last years, we had teams making the playoffs with an 8-8 record, which is ridiculous in my opinion. It just so happens that this year there are a lot of good teams, but who is to say we won't be back to 8-8 teams next year. It's impossible to say. As to your point about Samkon Gado, he is an excellent football player, but I think he is an exception, not a rule. Yes, you would probably get a few good stories like that of Gado with new teams, but you are telling me that you are going to find 22 Gado's per team for starters alone. First of all practice teams are not that big, so saying that you are going to recruit 22 practice squad players with NFL potential is not going to happen. Your only other option would be to draft more college players, which again would only bring down the talent level significantly.

subgenius · 12-30-2005, 11:41 AM

Seems like both sides of that sound convincing. There are other examples of great players that wasted away or nearly wasted away. Look at Kurt Warner, for example...

Kurt Warner was not drafted. When he left college in 1994, he went to the Packers training camp. He was released by the Packers without playing. He went on to work at a super-market stocking shelves. In 1995, he was signed to the Arena Football League -- the Iowa Barnstormers. He made the AFL's All-Arena First Team (all-stars) in 1996 and 1997. He also had two AFL Arena Bowl appearances in those same years.

Warner was then signed to the St. Louis Rams in 1998. He started as the Rams QB in 1999. And, he was in the January 2000 Super Bowl. I think that he was named MVP for the season and MVP of the Super Bowl that year. The funny part is that the Rams initially sent Warner to the Amsterdam Admirals of the NFL European league. He was the back-up QB for the Rams in the 1999-2000 Preseason. Trent Green got hurt, and Dick Vermeil sent in Warner.

Dick Vermeil was not happy about starting Warner. I don't think that he had much confidence in Warner's abilities. Warner was third-string after all. Trent Green was injured, and so was Paul Justin (the 2nd string QB). Warner went on to throw for like 41 TDs that year! Of course, he had help from players on the team like Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, and Marshal Faulk. The Rams had like three 500 point seasons consecutively with that team...

It is hard to imagine that happening, if Kurt Warner was still working a grocery store stocking shelves for minimum wage...

**Manster** · 12-30-2005, 12:04 PM

Yes there are some great stories out there Gado and Warner and there are some I bet that will never happen because the player never gets the chance. But for every one of those stories there are ten of first round draft picks getting cut because they never panned out. There would be a big drop in talent level if you added tdhat many new teams. You would be rob the depth off most teams right now to be able field the new teams. After a while it would build back up but it would take several years to get there.

subgenius · 12-31-2005, 10:34 AM

A friend of mine suggested that the NFL start a farm league with eight to sixteen teams. The NHL and MLB both have minor leagues that they use to send players up and down depending on their skill levels and such. It could be a cool idea... It would be designed to allow the players that do not get drafted or signed in the NFL to still play NFL style professional football. Also, if a player is the #1 draft pick, but plays horribly for two or three years or whatever, then that player could get sent down to the minors until he can adjust and improve.

As it is, there has been some debate about the level of talent in the NFL over the past two decades. Some teams have excelled, like Dallas and the Patriots and so forth... Other teams have wallowed in defeat and losses. In the past few years we have seen that it is increasingly difficult to build a dynasty or whatever that will dominate the seasons, Playoffs, and Super Bowl. The New England Patriots might be the last dynasty team in the NFL.

The upside to that is that we get to see teams go to the Super Bowl that might not have ever gone before -- the Eagles, the Panthers, the Ravens, the Titans, the Buccaneers, and Atlanta. Of those teams, only the Ravens and the Bucs have won the Super Bowl. This year, we might get to see the Seattle Seahawks and the Indianapolis Colts in the Super Bowl. It's been over thirty years since the Colts went to the Super Bowl. The Seahawks have never been to the big show!

n3rdych1ck · 12-31-2005, 04:23 PM

Portland? Are you talking about Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine? I think it'd be cool to have a team here in Oregon! I wonder what the new teams will be called.

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