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Old 12-02-2013, 04:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BamaChamps View Post
Maybe if the OSU coaches gave the players a loan, the players wouldn't have to improperly sell their football memorabilia including big ten championship rings. But, OSU already has boosters who "inadvertently overpaid" players for work, and gave them "great bargains" on automobiles.
Face it, what Ohio State players did should not be considered cheating. I find it inexcusable that they would trade those things for tattoos, but they were their personal possessions, and they should be free to do with them as they please. Free loans, suits and cars on the other hand? Yeah, I think I've made my point.

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Once again Boise doesn't always win, even with that easy schedule. They have only been unbeaten twice in their history, 2006 & 2009. Also, they can earn a shot, join an AQ conference and win it.

Its very funny coming from you especially how you have talked about FSU & Bama schedule not being tough. But you don't mention that Boise St every year plays about 6-7 of the worst teams in all of FBS. This year Bama played Colorado St from the MWC, and Bama made a ton of mistakes still won 31-6 lol. Now imagine if they played that type of team all season long.

The bottom line is that Boise is never going to play for the title with that kind of schedule. And its up to them, not other programs, to join the big boys or at least schedule better.
Bama doesn't always win either. Boise State won enough that they should have been considered. Maybe not in the current system, but then again, the current system is going away.

There's a difference, that isn't really that hard to grasp. Bama and FSU, and even Ohio State are given the benefit of the doubt regardless of how strong their schedules are. Maybe that's because they've earned it, or maybe that's because the NCAA earns from it. I'll go with the latter. Colorado State? You mean the team that lost 6 games and barely managed to become bowl eligible? The team that put more up on Bama than they did Utah State? That Colorado State?

I guarantee you that Boise State will be able to make it in if they have another run like the did a few years ago. Some of their upcoming OOC opponents include Oklahoma State, Florida State and Michigan State. Hell, Fresno State nearly cracked the top ten, and probably would have if they'd won out, and their "big" win was in OT over Rutgers. Like I've been saying, they'll eventually find their way in. The biggest question is, what will people like you and Kinnick do if they win?
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WeWantTheVest View Post
Face it, what Ohio State players did should not be considered cheating. I find it inexcusable that they would trade those things for tattoos, but they were their personal possessions, and they should be free to do with them as they please. Free loans, suits and cars on the other hand? Yeah, I think I've made my point.
What evidence is there that Bama players got free suits and cars? Nothing more than usual athletic clothing and apparel. And that one loan after Clinton Dix got robbed was paid back quickly so it wasn't free. And its all semantics anyways, Bama player gets less than a $500 loan after losing a lot from a robbery, but its ok for OSU players to get thousands of dollars taken off of the new cars they buy. Yeah, I think your point it clear.

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Bama doesn't always win either. Boise State won enough that they should have been considered. Maybe not in the current system, but then again, the current system is going away.

There's a difference, that isn't really that hard to grasp. Bama and FSU, and even Ohio State are given the benefit of the doubt regardless of how strong their schedules are. Maybe that's because they've earned it, or maybe that's because the NCAA earns from it. I'll go with the latter. Colorado State? You mean the team that lost 6 games and barely managed to become bowl eligible? The team that put more up on Bama than they did Utah State? That Colorado State?
No team always win but that's what Boise supporters love to say to somehow justify their laughable schedule. You believe they won enough, and thankfully you are in a small minority. FSU, OSU, or any team in an AQ conference with a title shot would have done much more than an undefeated Boise. And Colorado State is a prime example of how mismatch those MWC teams are. Bama played one of its worse games and still won 31-6 lol.

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I guarantee you that Boise State will be able to make it in if they have another run like the did a few years ago. Some of their upcoming OOC opponents include Oklahoma State, Florida State and Michigan State. Hell, Fresno State nearly cracked the top ten, and probably would have if they'd won out, and their "big" win was in OT over Rutgers. Like I've been saying, they'll eventually find their way in. The biggest question is, what will people like you and Kinnick do if they win?
You are banking on a lot of ifs. Boise can't even stay on top in MWC, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on them to make a 4 team playoff. The most important question is when will Boise join an aq conference, so they can be forgotten like Utah and TCU?
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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What evidence is there that Bama players got free suits and cars? Nothing more than usual athletic clothing and apparel. And that one loan after Clinton Dix got robbed was paid back quickly so it wasn't free. And its all semantics anyways, Bama player gets less than a $500 loan after losing a lot from a robbery, but its ok for OSU players to get thousands of dollars taken off of the new cars they buy. Yeah, I think your point it clear.
You're right, there was never any concrete evidence. Kudos to Saban and your athletic department for keeping that under wraps. I'm well over 6 figures in my salary, and I don't own 15 suits. Julio Jones had at least that many as an unemployed college football player. His autographed jerseys and pictures were in the store his suits came from, and there was never anything produced, or even attempted to be produced to show he purchased them. That's just one player. Hundreds more players have been in that store "hanging out", and there's the photographs to prove it. Maybe the owner is just a real swell guy, and great company...

That loan is fine, and I personally don't have a problem with it, but rules are rules. That's what the media exploded about when the tattoo nonsense hit. Never mind that everything they traded belonged to them, rules were rules, unless you play in the SEC. Then you are allowed to trade for suits, Cam Newton is allowed to play for whoever pays dad the most money, and you can take all the money and free stuff you want.

Thousands taken off the price of their vehicles? I do the same every time I buy a car, because I'm not an idiot.

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No team always win but that's what Boise supporters love to say to somehow justify their laughable schedule. You believe they won enough, and thankfully you are in a small minority. FSU, OSU, or any team in an AQ conference with a title shot would have done much more than an undefeated Boise. And Colorado State is a prime example of how mismatch those MWC teams are. Bama played one of its worse games and still won 31-6 lol.
I'm not a Boise supporter by any stretch, but I am a fan of the sport. If I'm in such a small minority why is it that they had gained so much momentum before they fell off? They were a missed field goal away from playing for an MNC. If a playoff had been around a lot sooner, they'd have made it in. You might as well get used to it. Eventually one of these teams is going to make it in. I personally hope they do, and get destroyed, but that doesn't change the fact that they should make it.

You act like Colorado State played at top level. Bama's "worst" shouldn't be up 17-6 in the 4th quarter against a mediocre MWC opponent.

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You are banking on a lot of ifs. Boise can't even stay on top in MWC, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on them to make a 4 team playoff. The most important question is when will Boise join an aq conference, so they can be forgotten like Utah and TCU?
It's not if, but when. There will be another Boise State that comes along, and they will make it into the playoff. It might not be Boise State, but someone. The real question is, what happens when TCU goes undefeated and wins the conference? Will the elitists still fall back on the "but they used to play in the MWC" defense? What about if Missouri wins the SEC this year? Will every conference's top teams still struggle to get bowl eligible in the mighty SEC? These are the same, baseless arguments that the elitists constantly bring up. You don't know how they'd do, until they are there. Keeping FBS teams from BcS conferences out of BcS bowls because of perception is hypocrisy at its finest in college football.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WeWantTheVest View Post
You're right, there was never any concrete evidence. Kudos to Saban and your athletic department for keeping that under wraps. I'm well over 6 figures in my salary, and I don't own 15 suits. Julio Jones had at least that many as an unemployed college football player. His autographed jerseys and pictures were in the store his suits came from, and there was never anything produced, or even attempted to be produced to show he purchased them. That's just one player. Hundreds more players have been in that store "hanging out", and there's the photographs to prove it. Maybe the owner is just a real swell guy, and great company...

That loan is fine, and I personally don't have a problem with it, but rules are rules. That's what the media exploded about when the tattoo nonsense hit. Never mind that everything they traded belonged to them, rules were rules, unless you play in the SEC. Then you are allowed to trade for suits, Cam Newton is allowed to play for whoever pays dad the most money, and you can take all the money and free stuff you want.

Thousands taken off the price of their vehicles? I do the same every time I buy a car, because I'm not an idiot.



I'm not a Boise supporter by any stretch, but I am a fan of the sport. If I'm in such a small minority why is it that they had gained so much momentum before they fell off? They were a missed field goal away from playing for an MNC. If a playoff had been around a lot sooner, they'd have made it in. You might as well get used to it. Eventually one of these teams is going to make it in. I personally hope they do, and get destroyed, but that doesn't change the fact that they should make it.

You act like Colorado State played at top level. Bama's "worst" shouldn't be up 17-6 in the 4th quarter against a mediocre MWC opponent.



It's not if, but when. There will be another Boise State that comes along, and they will make it into the playoff. It might not be Boise State, but someone. The real question is, what happens when TCU goes undefeated and wins the conference? Will the elitists still fall back on the "but they used to play in the MWC" defense? What about if Missouri wins the SEC this year? Will every conference's top teams still struggle to get bowl eligible in the mighty SEC? These are the same, baseless arguments that the elitists constantly bring up. You don't know how they'd do, until they are there. Keeping FBS teams from BcS conferences out of BcS bowls because of perception is hypocrisy at its finest in college football.

I'd tend to believe that's a choice you made to not have 15 as opposed to not being able to afford them. I wouldn't consider myself "well over 6 figures," but I do own 15 suits.

I'm staying out of the rest of it.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:11 AM   #25 (permalink)
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It is a choice I made, because I don't need them and it's not something I'll waste my money on. When I was in college and worked two jobs, I couldn't have afforded 15 suits, let alone tailored suits from a custom shop.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:35 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WeWantTheVest View Post
You're right, there was never any concrete evidence. Kudos to Saban and your athletic department for keeping that under wraps. I'm well over 6 figures in my salary, and I don't own 15 suits. Julio Jones had at least that many as an unemployed college football player. His autographed jerseys and pictures were in the store his suits came from, and there was never anything produced, or even attempted to be produced to show he purchased them. That's just one player. Hundreds more players have been in that store "hanging out", and there's the photographs to prove it. Maybe the owner is just a real swell guy, and great company...
If we go that route how can OSU players afford brand new cars, and $300 Beats by Dre headphones? We can assume all day doesn't prove anything. Just like the numerous reports of unethical practices by Urban, including turning a blind eye to rampant drug use, having at least 30 players arrested in 6 years @ FL, and many recruiting violations.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo...gram-will-musc

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Originally Posted by WeWantTheVest View Post
That loan is fine, and I personally don't have a problem with it, but rules are rules. That's what the media exploded about when the tattoo nonsense hit. Never mind that everything they traded belonged to them, rules were rules, unless you play in the SEC. Then you are allowed to trade for suits, Cam Newton is allowed to play for whoever pays dad the most money, and you can take all the money and free stuff you want.

Thousands taken off the price of their vehicles? I do the same every time I buy a car, because I'm not an idiot.
Now this is what I don't understand, OSU fans attacking the SEC when your programs is the most recent one to be on probation for cheating. Not only did your football team cheat, but your entire athletic department self reported over 46 NCAA violations not too long ago. http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.Upy9K77nbIU
Talk about the pot calling the kettle, black. I could see if you were a Iowa or Purdue fan bringing up cheating, but OSU cheats just like a SEC school if not more so. lol


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Originally Posted by WeWantTheVest View Post
I'm not a Boise supporter by any stretch, but I am a fan of the sport. If I'm in such a small minority why is it that they had gained so much momentum before they fell off? They were a missed field goal away from playing for an MNC. If a playoff had been around a lot sooner, they'd have made it in. You might as well get used to it. Eventually one of these teams is going to make it in. I personally hope they do, and get destroyed, but that doesn't change the fact that they should make it.

You act like Colorado State played at top level. Bama's "worst" shouldn't be up 17-6 in the 4th quarter against a mediocre MWC opponent.
That's exactly my point Bama couldn't even give the game away, that's how bad that conference is.


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It's not if, but when. There will be another Boise State that comes along, and they will make it into the playoff. It might not be Boise State, but someone. The real question is, what happens when TCU goes undefeated and wins the conference? Will the elitists still fall back on the "but they used to play in the MWC" defense? What about if Missouri wins the SEC this year? Will every conference's top teams still struggle to get bowl eligible in the mighty SEC? These are the same, baseless arguments that the elitists constantly bring up. You don't know how they'd do, until they are there. Keeping FBS teams from BcS conferences out of BcS bowls because of perception is hypocrisy at its finest in college football.
If TCU wins the conference and is undefeated then they would have an earned a spot in the playoffs, same for Utah or any school in an AQ conference. Missouri is irrelevant to this discussion because they came from an AQ conference not the MWC. Still look at Missouri record of the two years in the SEC. You guys like to pick and choose when to bring up their record, because last year it was all about what A&M is doing. Now since A&M is doing ok but not great, its all Missouri. In two years playing conference games Missouri is 9-7 and Tex A&M is 10-6, respectable records but far from dominating the SEC like you try to portray. Ohio St would have a similar record, they definitely wouldn't be undefeated and not often challenge especially in the West division.

And here I thought most fans wanted to see decent matchups especially OOC. If a team like Boise would get in with a pathetic schedule from a non AQ conference especially at the expense of an AQ school that played a much tougher teams, what incentive would there be to play tough games? Everybody would schedule the Boise way and just play even more cream puffs to stay undefeated.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:11 AM   #27 (permalink)
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If we go that route how can OSU players afford brand new cars, and $300 Beats by Dre headphones? We can assume all day doesn't prove anything. Just like the numerous reports of unethical practices by Urban, including turning a blind eye to rampant drug use, having at least 30 players arrested in 6 years @ FL, and many recruiting violations.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo...gram-will-musc
So your big counter is that in the SEC his players were scumbags, and your biggest piece of evidence is an opinion piece written for hits? Good one...

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Now this is what I don't understand, OSU fans attacking the SEC when your programs is the most recent one to be on probation for cheating. Not only did your football team cheat, but your entire athletic department self reported over 46 NCAA violations not too long ago. http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.Upy9K77nbIU
Talk about the pot calling the kettle, black. I could see if you were a Iowa or Purdue fan bringing up cheating, but OSU cheats just like a SEC school if not more so. lol
We were raked over the coals because some players traded their possessions for tattoos and our coach didn't snitch on them, meanwhile the SEC is paying their players, over signing and legitimately cheating with no consequences. The good ole boy network in the South ensures you all stick together, and nothing ever comes from those violations. The Big Ten just happens to be full of snitches.

NCAA violations? That's laughable. Did you even look at what you linked? I didn't have to look hard because I remember that garbage and how much the media and the hillbillies in the South tried to use those against us. Some of the egregious "violations" included Urban Meyer saying good luck to Noah Spence. What a scumbag. Then Vrabel got caught dipping on the sidelines. Must have had the opponents game plan stashed in there. What a cheater.

And you question why I'd go after the SEC? Johnny Manziel was given a half game suspension for getting caught doing far worse. The hypocrisy from the NCAA/SEC/ESPN team knows no limits.

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That's exactly my point Bama couldn't even give the game away, that's how bad that conference is.
You act like you were playing the top of the conference. I could line up against Colorado State, take snaps from my dog and probably still beat them. Don't forget, you're the one that decided to use their game against Bama as a barometer here, not me.

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If TCU wins the conference and is undefeated then they would have an earned a spot in the playoffs, same for Utah or any school in an AQ conference. Missouri is irrelevant to this discussion because they came from an AQ conference not the MWC. Still look at Missouri record of the two years in the SEC. You guys like to pick and choose when to bring up their record, because last year it was all about what A&M is doing. Now since A&M is doing ok but not great, its all Missouri. In two years playing conference games Missouri is 9-7 and Tex A&M is 10-6, respectable records but far from dominating the SEC like you try to portray. Ohio St would have a similar record, they definitely wouldn't be undefeated and not often challenge especially in the West division.
I never said they have been dominating, but homers like you act like the top teams in every other conference would struggle to get to a bowl in the SEC. Obviously we see that as the garbage it is. Two mediocre teams in the Big 12 are holding their own, and are certainly not at the bottom as everyone tried to claim they would be. Missouri has a very real shot at winning the conference in their second season, with things only looking up for them.

I don't know how Ohio State would do, but then again, neither do you. I remember when Missouri couldn't possibly compete with "old man football" from Georgia, Florida or USC. Ohio has one of the best recruiting beds in the country, and playing in the SEC would only make Coach Meyer's job of recruiting those areas easier. I say Ohio State would compete for a conference championship every year, especially if they adopted Bama's scheduling tactics. Then again, we don't really know, do we?

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And here I thought most fans wanted to see decent matchups especially OOC. If a team like Boise would get in with a pathetic schedule from a non AQ conference especially at the expense of an AQ school that played a much tougher teams, what incentive would there be to play tough games? Everybody would schedule the Boise way and just play even more cream puffs to stay undefeated.
I thought Boise State/Oklahoma was one of the best games in history, and so do a lot of others that have it at the top of their lists. I also enjoyed the Utah/Bama game, but I'm sure you didn't. Schedule the Boise way? No one in the top 5 can say they scheduled any tougher OOC than Boise State has.

You speak with a lot of conjecture, and never offer anything to back it up. Since you can do that, I can too. Bama would struggle to go to a bowl every year if they played in the MAC.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:45 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Since you said something about facts, the following are the only facts that are relevant to this discussion. Utah last season in the MWC, 10-3 (7-1) in conference. Since joining the PAC, 17-19 (8-18)in conference. The one PAC game they won this year was against Stanford. So answer this Vest, since Utah beat a good Stanford team should they play for the title? Why or why not?

TCU last season in MWC, 11-2 (8-0) in conference. Since joining big 12, 11-14 (6-12)in conference. Again answer this Vest, is it just some coincident that once these two programs that were a combine (15-1) in the season before they left the MWC, struggle greatly in an aq conference? That alone should tell you something about the competition they faced in the MWC as opposed to AQ conferences.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Since our facts don't need to be relevant, here's one: Utah is undefeated all time vs Bama. Another: Missouri never won a conference championship in the Big 12, yet they might do it in their second year with the SEC.

Using BamaChamps logic, there are only two reasonable conclusions. First, Utah is better than Bama and therefore the MWC and Pac 12 are better than the SEC. Second, the Big 12 is also better than the SEC.
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Hey BamaChamps, don't you have something more important to do?

http://www.change.org/petitions/ncaa...iron-bowl-2013
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